Mariana, I am sorry that you believe chivalry is demeaning, because I believe that it is empowering and points to our worth as women. Granted, BYU has quite the fixation on chivalry and treating women with respect, but I think that when you look at acts such as holding open a door or paying for a date with a different perspective you will come to understand that these acts give women no less power than men.

To address your first point that men holding open doors characterizes women as “helpless” or “damsels in distress,” a man being willing to stop and hold the door open for a woman shows that he feels she is more important than wherever he needs to be next. It is also a common courtesy. I don’t care whether the person behind me is a married man, a grandma, or one of my friends - I’m going to hold the door open because it shows love and respect for our fellow man. If it’s not okay for a man to hold the door for me, is it not okay for me to hold the door for him?

Secondly, men paying for dates, while it is so often categorized as chivalric, an expectation, or a recommendation by church authorities, it is also economically smart. According to an article presented by BusinessWeek about the cost of a two-and-a-half year courtship, couples will spend an average of $1,775 on entertainment (Damast, “Dating Versus...”). Just think of the money that a woman can save when the man is paying for the date, as Elder Oaks encouraged in his talk “Dating Versus Hanging Out”. I remember the last time I paid for the date - I ended up spending half of my entertainment budget for the month in a single night, and it wasn’t even with someone I went on a second date with.

Thirdly, engagement rings are much more than a “sign of ownership.” Of my many friends and relatives that have recently become engaged, none are reluctant to show off their beautiful rings because to them it shows that their fiancee has committed to be with them forever just as they have committed to him. Not only are rings a symbol of love and commitment, they’re also a smart investment. According to diamond manufacturer Ajediam, “diamond prices have increased an average of 15 percent each year since 1949” (Yanos, “Investing in...”). Diamonds don’t depreciate making their symbolism of commitment even more poignant.

Finally, if Heavenly Father wanted women to be like men, wouldn’t he have just created one gender? The reason why there is man and woman is because each has a unique and crucial role in the plan of salvation. In his talk, “Women of Righteousness,” Elder M. Russell Ballard points out that “The adversary is having a heyday distorting attitudes about gender and roles and about families and individual worth. He is the author of mass confusion about the value, the role, the contribution, and the unique nature of women.” Satan is trying to get women to forget their roles as women in the church: “We don’t need women who want to be like men, sound like men, dress like men, drive like some men drive, or act like men. We do need women who rejoice in their womanhood and have a spiritual confirmation of their identity, their value, and their eternal destiny.”

I can’t decide what makes you feel of worth, but it saddens me that you don’t find joy in the respect men offer us here at BYU - respect that Heavenly Father wants you to be the recipient of. As women, there are so many things we can do that men can’t. Skirts do not confine us, rather they free us to take advantage of the unique roles, opportunities, and blessings that we, as daughters of God, are privileged to.

Works Cited
Ballard, M Russell. "Women of Righteousness." Ensign Dec. 2002: 34. Web. 9 Dec. 2009.
Oaks, Dallin H. "Dating Versus Hanging Out." Ensign June 2006: 10-16. Web. 9 Dec. 2009.
Damast, Alison. "The High Cost of Serious Dating." BusinessWeek 7 Feb. 2008: n. pag. Web. 10 Dec. 2009.
Yanos, Melana. "Investing in Diamonds: The Terms of Engagment." NuWire Investor. NuWire, Inc., 27 Mar. 2008. Web. 10 Dec. 2009.

I don't know why cable woman is insulted about receiving royalty treatment. My wife,a CPA, mother, daughter, aunt,and professional, allows me to do a few nice things, because she knows outside of running our business and mowing the Lawn, I'm limited. I kill a deer,she says good job honey. Knowing she just finished two financials, bought Christmas for about 30 people, lined up the Catering for our annual Christmas Party, bought my daughters Christmas Costume,and cooked dinner and its only mid afternoon. She knows I cannot multi task at her level, but when she needs that 100 pound box moved upstairs, I'm her man, and she rewards me as needed. Cable woman must realize, men do these things to woman out of honor, not to insult.

Does this mean you want men to treat you like dirt? If so why would you want to be in a relationship if the guy you're with never does anything special or nice for you.

Good luck finding happiness (or a husband) with your current attitude. You'll need it.

hahaha. Oh dear. What a way to get everybody up and at arms. My favorite part is the whole "do not be fooled into thinking the men wear the pants in the relationship." Oh my dear Mariana, skirts in NO way mean that the wifes don't wear the pants. Ask ANY married man. As the saying goes, "The man may be the head of the family, but the woman is the neck and can turn the head anyway she pleases." My mother is from New York City, 1st generation American, helped support the family and has had to raise her kids with my Dad being gone for large chunks of time. If that's not independence, I don't know what is. And yet, she taught us to accept small gestures and polite things such as having my door held open for me, or having the guy insist on paying. If I asked him on the date, sure I'll pay. That's my responsibilty, and the guy should allow me pay, same as I should allow him to pay when he asks me. Doesn't mean I'm not "wearing the pants". Also, for someone who's so "forward in thinking", don't you find that statement a little archaic? I feel that to continue using a term that so obviously refers to men being in charge, rather than in a partnership, is more than a little contradictory.

I think this whole ordeal is so hilarious. I just want to say that I am quite content with my independence and my equality with men, but when it comes down to it, I LOVE when a guy opens a door for me or buys me dinner. I love it. It makes my day when I'm walking into a building and some guy I don't even know holds the door for me. That is so great! I'm glad that mothers raise these boys right. It is out of respect and admiration and I greatly appreciate that. Thank you, men, for being Christ-like!

Well you obviously just wanted to light a fire, and you succeeded. If you wanted to get a reaction out of people, you sure know the right things to say.

Sorry if I sound chauvinistic, but I have a hard time believing that anyone feels that way. I mean, yeah I know women want to feel empowered and equal etc etc, but does any woman really feel offended when someone opens the door for them? Some guy held the door open for me at the store today, and I'm a guy. I suppose I should have popped him in the nose.

So I hope you don't mind if I doubt your complete sincerity to the topic, although I do believe you and your future husband will have some definite issues to resolve. But I just can't help but think this was really just another way to rile up the student body by going to the extreme with a touchy topic. Similar attempts (and successes) have been made in the past, including gay rights, anything political, some kid's "right" to sing in public, and (my all time favorite, which shows how old I am) "Babylon" entering BYU because the DU posted a picture of somebody barefoot on campus.

I was really shocked when I saw this posted on my home teacher's facebook page. He made the comment that THIS is why chivalry has died, and why so many men are afraid to ask women out anymore. I am the youngest child and the only girl in my family. With five older brothers, I've had a lot of opportunities to love and appreciate the men in my life. But I am no submissive person--I am an independent woman. I believe women can work just as well as any man, and I believe we are just as intelligent and capable. But that's it. JUST AS. We are not BETTER. Neither are we worse. I appreciate it when a man asks me out on a date. I love it when men and women alike hold doors for me on campus. It's a sign of appreciation--NOT disrespect! In the Priesthood session of this last General Conference President Monson told a story and quoted "A man's a fool who takes insult that isn't intended." Perhaps this should have been given in the Relief Society Broadcast for women like Mariana.

I would like to end by saying that men and women are different, and every culture is different in their expectations for both. But our gender is part of who we are ETERNALLY. If anyone is not satisfied with their lot in life, I would suggest taking it up with the Lord in earnest prayer. I love being a woman, and I love believing in the power of women. I am a feminist, yes, but I love men. So keep going, gentlemen--don't lose faith!!! Your acts are 100% appreciated by true, gentle ladies.

So, we (my homies and I at the office) are reading through all the comments here, and they make us wonder: who wronged you so badly that you have to take it out on methods males use for showing respect? Totally wac. Let me remind you, this got posted on the world wide web, anyone can read this, especially those at BYU. You're obviously new at this commenting thing, you haven't chosen your audience well, in that most people disagree with you. It's freaking BYU, the dating capital of the world. Where men come from all over the world to open doors, and pay for meals. Have you seen the wedding ring bulletin boards? Come on. That's like being a party pooper at a dating party 24/7.
I think Abigail Adams and Susan B. Anthony (some of the most famous feminists) would open the door for you just to make you mad. You know they would. I know they would. Get over it. You just got PWNED!!!!

I'm a graduate of BYU and read the Universe online for a chuckle from the Police Beat. But this letter, great entertainment. Thanks for the laugh Mariana.

I am honestly appalled and the mean and bitter nature of most of these comments. Why can't we just discuss things nicely and appreciate other perspectives? I don't think Mariana is describing how all women feel. And I think that's obvious from the comments. But she has a point. While I do appreciate common politeness, I still think there is some leveling that needs to be done. For all the dateless girls out there, why can't we ask guys out? Every time I've asked a guy out, they've been really weird about it. Why can't we pay for dates occasionally to show that we think the guy is worth it? I have never understood the one-sided nature of the dating field. In firesides and stake conferences, the speakers always tell the guys to do the asking and the girls to say yes. But why can't it be the other way around? I think Mariana makes some good and valid points and doesn't deserve all the criticism she's received. People are talking about kindness and Christ-like examples. But when you completely bash someone's point of view, isn't it a tad hypocritical?

It sounds to me as if you don't understand that we, as men who are doing as counseled, are simply showing respect. I was raised that women go first. There are rules of common sense and decency. Maybe we actually enjoy being able to do something for women, when they do so much for us as men.
To me, you don't sound independent. You just sound ungrateful and indigent, with a "I'll do it myself attitude." That's not what life is about. It's about having partnership in this world, being equal.

For everyone here saying how its simple politeness to open a door for a person, or pay for a meal, that isn't what she is talking about.

She is talking about the EXPECTATION that it should be done.

I agree that some girls are overly offended, but there is a point.

There is a 'happy little homemaker' 'helpless damsel in distress' role that some traditional people like to play out. Thats fine.

The issue is not to force or assume a role for other people to play.

Not all women want to be treated as helpless, so get a feel for who you are hanging out with.

I once dated a southern gentleman who insisted I wear a dress on dates and wait while he came around and opened the car door. I did neither and he soon told me that we were not well suited. He was right. Several years later, while praying I was inspired to declare my love and desire to marry my best friend, and now hubby for 34 years. He too was taught to hold the door for a lady, but respected my wishes of being independent.

Are you really so angry about door holding males? Or is it other strong cultural norms that may be fueling this anger? Maybe these other norms need to be discussed here. For example, as a instructor at the college level I have observed male students talking over female comments in class. I watched the dynamics of group work where men fail to listen to female suggestions, expecting the "girls" to do the grunt work and then when its time to present they take center stage. Assertive women are labeled aggressive and gentle men are teased by men and women as not being "manly enough."

However what I do see also more today than 40 year ago are women standing strong in their convictions and not having their voices silenced.I also have observed well brought up men who do treat women as complete equals and stand "with" them when they observe cultural injustices.

When we paint one gender with the same color, we fail to recognize and respect the divesity within each group. HURRAY for women who want to pay their own way, and hurray for women who see a man paying as part of his provider's role.

Mariana, thanks for providing my entertainment for the day. It is letters like this, together with the responses, that remind me why I hope they never stop printing the Daily Universe.

The loudest are always the most insecure. It is because I feel so confident and strong in my womanhood that I allow men to open doors for me and pay for my dinner while on a date. I can handle the polite behavior because I do not have to look around and wonder who might now believe I am not physically capable of opening a door or do not have the money to pay for an $8 meal. When I get to the door first, I hold it open for the person behind me, whether it be a man or a woman. I figure I can handle other people doing the same. Men, please continue to be polite, chivalrous human beings who treat the women you adore accordingly. Unless, of course, you would like to marry a woman like Mariana.

While I don't agree with the original letter that all such acts are a sign of subjugation (I open doors for those around me, and appreciate doors being held open for me), I do take umbrage with the idea expressed by many replies that women have an obligation to be ok with acts supposedly done for their benefit. If you are doing something to be polite or show respect for a woman, and she doesn't take it that way, then you shouldn't do it. Something isn't courteous if its forced on the receiver.

Nice, good, chivalrous guys don't try to force their ideas of what is polite behavior on the women around them.

"The Daily Universe reserves the right to monitor comments. Comments will not be posted if they are not in accordance with The Daily Universe's comment policy. The standards for acceptance of comments include:
2. Profanity, obscenity, sexist or racist comments are unacceptable and will be deleted."

It is sad when the original article that comments are posted to breaks the standard to which the comments are held.
...Or... do you think that Mariana's letter is NOT sexist?

Sexism: Discrimination based on gender; Attitudes, conditions, or behaviors that promote stereotyping of social roles based on gender. (The American Heritage® Dictionary, Fourth Edition)

I drop my two-cents at the feet of the moderators, with a salute to the 'self-proclaimed "gentlemen"'.

I have been married for 7 months now (granted, not much time) and I still open my wife's door for her. She has expressed appreciation for that many times. I do it out of respect for her as a women and an equal, my guess that is why most men that open doors do it. It has absolutely nothing to do with me being above her. We are equals and I am proud to have the opportunity to walk side by side with the love of my life.

classic!

There is nothing wrong with someone showing another (for instance, a man showing a woman) respect! Guys open doors for guys, girls for guys, and last, guys for girls. And when they take you on a date, you should be grateful they like you enough to treat you to a nice dinner.

For the record, as a male, I open doors for people of all sexes. It's called being polite. If that offends you, look inward.

What if a woman holds a door open for you? Would you tell her off too? I'm just wondering since I--a woman--often hold doors open for anyone who's around while I'm entering or exiting a building. I do it in an attempt to be polite. So, Mariana, would you take offense if I, or any other woman, held open a door for you? I tend to think not. Double-standard much?

I'm pretty sure you're no longer in danger of having doors held open for you--at least, not on campus--so... mission accomplished?

P.S. I agree with the "Anonymous" who said: "And this is why feminism has such a negative ring to it...thanks, Mariana." (sidenote: why is it that no one posts their names?)

P.P.S. Thanks for letting everyone know that you have money. And hands.

That is seriously one of the most amazing things I have ever read. Amazing in that I have utterly no idea what must be going on in someone's head to create such a . . . work of art. Thank you.

It's very sad to see that you have that response to a gentleman being polite and showing respect towards you. I'll just ask one question, what is more difficult, for a gentleman to open the door for you, or for you to be accepting of a gentlemans kind gestures? Getting upset at a gentleman opening the door for you only shows that you do not have self-respect, nor respect towards man. Insisting that you are capable of doing everything is not a sign of strength, but of weakness.
Show strength in yourself, doing it in the fact that you are a woman, the supreme creation of our Heavenly Father. If a man shows respect towards you it is not a sign of thinking that you're inferior, but it is an acknowledgement of you as a choice daughter of God.
One last comment : From a personal point of view I believe that woman look better in skirts, but by all means walk beside the man. I expect no less from my wife.

And this is why feminism has such a negative ring to it...thanks, Mariana.

You just insulted every man who has grown up trying to treat women with respect and appreciation. When I hold a girl open for a girl I am saying "I appreciate you." Whenever I paid for a girl on a date I was simply trying to express "you are worth more than I could ever pay and I hope you enjoy the evening." When I knelt down on one knee and presented a ring to my wonderful wife I was telling her "I love you." Do not mistake acts of kindness for acts of control. Just because a man is trying to serve you does not mean that he feels you are less than him. Once when I was on a date with a girl I opened the door for her and she yelled at me. I have seldom felt more humiliated in my life. If guys were trying to do things for you that they thought you couldn't do for yourself then they would go lift really heavy objects to try and impress you (and yes, guys are usually stronger than girls. It's just physiology, no oppression.) I'm all for women's rights, but having guys do less for you is not the way to go.

Let me guess what you're studying, criminal justice? Something that will allow you to promote your authority over men and women just because you can, because you're just as powerful? By saying what you are, you aren't gaining any respect from anyone, you're destroying it.

Forgive men for being polite, for being nice, for treating you as they should; rather allow them to push you around and demean you, after all you are just as powerful, you can take it.

There are a thousand things that I want to scream into this comment but I won't. I just trust that you do not speak for the general female population and if you do I'm glad I found the wife I did, who is an equal to me yet isn't so prideful that she doesn't accept the adoration she deserves and receives.

Dear Mariana,
I appreciate that you want to feel equal to men. The important thing to understand is that by allowing men to perform acts of kindness, they are not showing that they are better than you, but that they care enough about you and respect you enough to do such acts. Take it and run with it. Allow a man the pleasure of serving you-a prized daughter of God.

I also think you should know that the true gentleman is not self-proclaimed but humble enough to know that he is merely treating the daughters of God as Heavenly Father himself would treat them.

Sincerely,
Krystal

Who ever said women were behind men? I think you should lead your own cause by yourself, and we can do our own thing. Just because you're one of three girls on campus that feel this way doesn't mean you have to let all of us know how you feel, because this is far from convincing. I'll wear pants or a skirt when I please, as for you, you wear those pants.

Mariana -

You are awesome and I agree 100%. That's really all I can say... keep on keepin' on girl, there are plenty of strong LDS women (including myself) who will back you up. My husband and I are equals. He was the one who proposed to me, but at the end of the day we both work, both cook, and both scrub the dishes. We are equals and I couldn't be happier.

I wasn't aware that the offer of paying for your meal automatically robbed you of your ability to politely decline and pay for your own. I will have to remember this when I help the elderly across the street that I'm really just stealing their right to refuse and walk alone.

Mariana, I don't think necesary to always figth against the established, if those kind manners of demostrating love have lasted for so long, is beacase they have probed to be good. By letting man pay for dates and open doors for you only mean that they care about you, and want to make feel good, of course you don't need those things to be a real woman but let the men serve the most incredible0 cration of the Lord, women.

I really don't think that chivalry is a method of oppression. This past summer I was in a foreign country and some of the women talked about how impressed they were by the kindness of American men. They both expressed how they would like to be treated in the same way that American women are. Obviously not all American men are gentlemen, but I think that Mariana's views might come from cultural differences. Perhaps in Brazil it is degrading to be nice to women. But here in America respect for women is just good manners.

As an electrical engineering student and possibly a future air force fighter pilot I can understand the importance of a woman's independence. However, the phrase that came to mind when I read your article was "Hell hath no fury like a woman's scorn" I am truly sorry you feel that way.
To all the guys all there: I work with mills, drills, electric saws and hardware all day long and even though I am a strong defender of a woman's independence I am flattered and HONORED when a guy stands up in the bus to grant me his seat or when he holds open a door for me with a smile. The world is in need of gentlemen, and BYU is one of the few places where they can be found in a slightly greater quantity. Please do not stop opening doors for us, please do not let a girl pay for a date and PLEASE do get on one knee when proposing! As to the safety hazard of skirts, having worked on a machine shop while wearing them, I can guarantee they are safe and serve only to express the delicateness of all women. NEWS FLASH: BYU IS NOT THE PLACE FOR EXTREME FEMINISM...
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Personally, I thought this article rather amusing. However, I hope those that Mariana would call her "sisters in Zion" will NOT heed her call to live a lifestyle that seems at such odds with the teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ through His chosen prophets and apostles. Anyone who teaches or claims the truth lies in something opposite of the teachings of the Fountain of Truth is not your true sister. Furthermore, if you enjoy, ever have enjoyed, or look forward to a guy asking you out on a date, Mariana called you a prostitute. Neither myself, nor the Lord, would call you a prostitute because you enjoy the chivalry the Lord Himself would show you. The display of respect is not the equivalent of standing in front of someone. Neither is allowing an individual show respect equivalent with submitting to that person. I respect my Lord and Savior by keeping His commandments and speaking to Him daily, but I would never think of myself as standing in front of Him; His allowing me to show Him that respect does mean that he is submissive to me.

I seriously doubt whether or not the author really believes what she is saying. It is obvious this letter was purposefully written for "shock" value and just to get a reaction of people, and that the DU published it because they wanted to attract more readers. No intelligent or sane person, male or female, would have written this in seriousness. Her logic is absolutely ridiculous.

Hey Mariana! Calm down lady!! I laughed so hard when reading your letter. Looks like you have deep issues against men and against any kind of polite actions. "Women who allow men to pay for them on a date are prostituting their worth not only in the relationship"???? What are you talking about?? You are truly out of place, lady. Good luck having a date in the next 100 years!!
By the way, I am happily married, and I love to do everything I can for my wife. And she loves it, too!!

As a human being, I appreciate gentlemanly behavior. I look at it as a show of respect when a man feels the need to open the door for me or wants to pay for a date he has asked me on. It is polite for him to behave in this manner. A woman who realizes her worth will not allow herself to be offended by a guy who is just trying to be nice. I agree - an intelligent woman can find a "mate," though I prefer the term partner. This is done through dating. The person who extends the invitation pays. I would also like to point out that it is quite possible to run in a skirt. If you are going to rip on female fashion, please direct all remarks to heels. They make it difficult to stand, much less walk, and damage a persons feet and lower back. I find that article of clothing to be much more demeaning than any behavior of men that has been mentioned in this letter. A woman who recognizes her worth and is willing to allow people to be nice to her will find a partner with whom she can assume her position at his side.

All I have to say is Amen! I 100 percent agree with everything you said. I can open my car door and would prefer not to wait for my husband to come around to open it for me. Women are 100% the superior race (as a whole). We can raise the children, provide for the family, and have the emotional sensitivity to respont to each others needs. Men, just go to relief socity once and you will realize that what I am saying is 100 percent true. Don't get me wrong, men are great and I wouldn't even want to live with out them, but women (as a whole) are just more capable on every level. Yea for women!